Welcome Back to the Because Money Podcast!
We are so happy to be back, even if the term ‘we’ is loose at this point. After 27 episodes of Season 1 and an ever increasing list of todos around our homes, we decided to take a little break from recording. Well, a few months later Sandi and I are ready to go, however Robb has since picked up 74 part time writing jobs and doesn’t have enough room on his calendar to host Season 2. However… not all is lost, we expect to see Robb back as a guest in Season 2.
(Spoiler Alert) So in search of another host, we dialed the batphone and Kyle Prevost answered. Your secret is out!
No stranger to the show, Kyle appeared as a guest on Season 1 Episode 16 to discuss financial literacy.
Kyle is an expert in personal finance and student life, he co-authored the critically-acclaimed work: More Money for Beer and Textbooks – A Financial Guide for Today’s Canadian Student. Kyle also writes for several of Canada’s leading personal finance blogs including two he co-owns:YoungandThrifty.ca &MyUniversityMoney.com.
Kyle has been nominated for several awards as one of Canada’s preeminent personal finance bloggers. Kyle also enjoys a career as a high school teacher and shares his passion of personal finance with his students!
We are excited to have Kyle join us for Season 2 where we plan on recording roughly 15 episodes, releasing a new show every 2 weeks. Thanks again for being here, hope you enjoy the show, contact us anytime if you have comments or questions, show ideas or just want to say hi! We would love to hear from you!
Jackson: Jackson Middleton
Kyle: Kyle Prevost
Sandi: Sandi Martin
Jackson: Hello everybody, welcome to Season 2, Episode 1 of the Because Money podcast, and we’re happy to be back. And if you’re wondering where we went, it doesn’t matter. We’ll talk about that soon. The Because Money podcast, we are going to be throwing around a floating tagline this year. So were not sure exactly what our tagline is.
But we are the “other” Canadian money podcast not hosted by Preet Bannerjee, that’s were going with this episode. And with that note, I’m going to send it over to Sandi. She’s going to explain kind of what we’re doing this year, and then introduce that other good looking guy over there, who’s not Robb. Okay, Sandi, on to you.
Sandi: I am so glad to be back, if only for Jackson’s spur-of-the-moment stuff that he says. [laughs] So we have been spending a lot of time meeting and talking about this year’s episodes. We’ve got a slate of a lot of really good ideas, some really exciting guests. There’s a couple of people that I have known about for years and years and talked to online, but never had a chance to talk to personally, so I’m sure I’ll wave my hands around and laugh a lot while we have them, but it’ll still be really great. You’ll enjoy it.
Let’s talk about Kyle, because our friend Robb, our co-host, this year has taken a sabbatical. He’s leaving us to our own devices, which may or may not have been a good idea on his part.
But we’ve got a really great guy, Kyle, stepping in for him. You might remember him from “Young and Thrifty”; he’s all over the place. I’m going to throw it to him and let him introduce himself and we can go from there.
Kyle: So clearly, the pre-discussed game plan of keeping the bar nice and low went out the window there very quickly. I’m going to try my best to step into Robb’s massive shoes here and not completely destroy the Because Money brand and the Because Money podcast.
You guys might remember last year I was on the show, discussing a little bit about student personal finance courses and why we need to teach that stuff little bit more. You might have also caught me, if you read the Metro this summer, this summer I had a summer column in the Metro and I’ve done some other writing in newspapers. Like Sandi says, if you Google my name, I’m apparently quite vain because I’m on a lot of different projects and weird money things. So if you want to check out a little more about me, that’s where you can find me.
But I think what everyone’s waiting for is what Jackson Middleton did with his summer, because I’m sure it will not disappoint.
Jackson: Wow, there we go. Everyone’s wondering, eh? Actually, as a refresher, I was a mortgage broker from 2007 to 2013. I then sold my company to a company in Edmonton. I’m originally from Regina, Saskatchewan. I spent 33 years there and then finally got out. So I sold my company, moved to Edmonton and took a marketing position. And that’s kind of why we started Because Money. Sandi and I started talking and we got Robb involved, and then did some of the podcasts there, so I was kind of working for a mortgage company, but kind of doing marketing.
Since then I got a shot with a big company doing more corporate-type stuff. That just wasn’t me. So I ended up leaving the company and starting my own company, called Kilted Media. So I’m known online as “The Kilted Broker.” I don’t own pants. They kind of freak me out. So I wear a kilt every day. That’s kind of become my thing, so online I go by “The Kilted Broker” and now I run a marketing company called Kilted Media. I’ve kind of been building that up since January of this year.
It’s been a real transition, but man, I love being an entrepreneur. I’m a small business guy. I think that one of the draws for me being involved with the Because Money podcasts initially, and that Sandi and Robb both liked, was the fact that I don’t have my act together in finances, and I can bring a real fresh perspective. Finance people talk finance. They just forget that there’s really, really stupid people out there. And that’s the problem. So I bring that perspective, like “I don’t really keep receipts. I mean how do I do that?” Because I should. I mean, I know these things, but I just don’t. And I can bring that perspective that other people that they maybe lose sight of there’s people like me out there. So, as far to round out the show, I bring that honest, “Are you for real?” perspective, and I will continue to do that. I’m learning. I actually hired a financial controller for this business, so I have somebody who does it. So she now tells me everything I need to do.
Kyle: It’s like my marriage. She tells me everything I need to do.
Jackson: Yeah, so I’ve got a controller. She tells me what to do and I’m actually taking small steps to be financially responsible with my business. So Sandi, what did you do since we finished Episode 27 of Season 1, and now we’re starting out Season 2?
Sandi: I worked with a lot of really fantastic clients, and none of them are dumb. Every time you say that there’s dumb people in the room, it just irritates me. Everybody is really smart about their own stuff; not necessarily making all the right decisions, but you know about you and the things that make you tick. It’s just a matter of getting it into gear, so stop saying people are stupid. That’s number one.
But yeah, mostly I worked and spent some time with the kids. I really like summer, but I don’t get a lot of it because of, you know, children. And I had, like I said, I had some really great clients. I got off the phone last night with some clients who were just fantastic; working on a retirement income plan for them and really involved, and they read a lot of articles and they were able to have really long, good discussions that kind of even went outside of what their own financial plan was.
So I just had my head down and I haven’t really done anything exciting, except for, well you can see–maybe you can see behind me. I don’t if you remember from last year I spent most of my time complaining about the fact that my house was a disaster and we were going through a huge insurance mess. The insurance mess is done, but the disaster is still here because who can afford to renovate their entire house from top to bottom? Not this girl.
Kyle, what did you do with your summer?
Kyle: Well, I’m a teacher and so is my wife, so I immediately just attracted the hatred of about 98% of our audience with that comment. I have a lot of freedom with my summers. So we did what two people who have a lot of time off would do. We travelled around Canada, saw a lot of our friends, and a little bit into the States, where some of my wife’s family lives. Just generally enjoyed things. I started way too many projects. And now, of course, everything I procrastinated in terms of home maintenance and preparing for the school year is coming home to roost. So that’s been my summer.
And then just reading super-entertaining newspaper headlines recently. For those who they’re tuning in, we’re just taping this on August 28th, so if we’re a little bit out-of-date, that’s why. And I was thinking about this as Jackson’s talking about sort of lingo and terminology and how finance people can sort of talk over people’s heads. And I think that’s the same in any industry. Like I go to talk to mechanics and they’re talking about things. It’s like I know what a car is. I think I could identify a motor…
Jackson: I can drive it. I can drive it. That’s about it, yeah.
Kyle: Yeah, exactly. And yet they’re like, “Oh yeah, blah, blah, blah, and here’s the bill.” I’m just “okay, all right.” So I think law’s the same way. And more and more as I see more and more of these industries and the lingo involved, we’ve created these weird vocabularies to describe very simple things, usually.
And one of these like crazy things about the finance industry is I love the weird animal analogies and like just ridiculous like kindergarten terms we use to describe when things are happening in the world of finance. And so like right now you can go on to like any of major newspaper owned by billionaires, written by really smart people, and they’re talking about “don’t catch falling knives” and “are the bulls and the bears fighting?” and “are the lamb and the pig gonna get slaughtered?” And it’s like, what in the world are you referring to right now? So I don’t know, Sandi, can you talk some sense? What is actually going on in the stock market right now and do we even need to care, or should I be panicking in putting all my money under my pillow?
Sandi: Well, don’t’ do that. It’s a very uncomfortable sleep. It’ll just throw your back right out.
Kyle: I don’t know. Scrooge McDuck looked okay, right. You just dive in.
Sandi: I always wondered about that. I always thought they needed to do just one time where he dove into the coins and, obviously, didn’t go through them and broke his neck. Cut to the scene with like a roast duck on the table.
You know, markets are one of those “and both” scenarios. So is it important, what’s happening in the market? Well, sure you can’t say that it’s irrelevant. I mean, we don’t want to brush the entire financial—well, parts of it we do want to brush the financial industry off—but you don’t want to say, “Oh, it’s not important at all”, because there are some people that just retired two months ago who have to spend out of their portfolio, who really do need to think it. It’s very relevant to them. It’s painful to them. Talk about falling knives…
For the rest of us, and even for people who have just retired who are really seeing this and starting to just have that visceral scary feeling, it’s not important, even if it is. So again, “and both.” There’s probably very little meaningful action that you can take right now. So on Monday were you supposed to sell everything? No, everybody knows no, you’re not supposed to sell. It’s kind of a panic. Does that mean that on Tuesday you were supposed to buy a lot because that was a buying opportunity?
Kyle: Yeah, two day later it was a “buying opportunity”.
Sandi: Right, exactly. Just can’t, one day to the next, doesn’t matter in people’s long-term, low-cost, well diversified portfolio. I have some clients who are really smart, who had emailed me and said “this was a great opportunity for me. I managed to kind of crystalize some losses.” I had every confidence in their ability take advantage of this. For me, I didn’t do anything. I didn’t look at a thing. And I’m kind of proud of that, but also it’s not because I’m really super smart. I just know that I don’t care that much.
Kyle: Here’s the thing. I got like two different series of emails. Because again, we have a pretty active sort of community on Young and Thrifty. We answer a lot of reader mail bags. Anonymously we answer their questions on the site. And we’ve got a lot of people in two different camps. The one camp was panicking, “Oh my God, I just lost $1,000.” And it’s like, “Okay, did you read any of the articles?” It’s a long-term investment.I’m always fond of saying if you need the money in the next five years, it should not be in the stock market.
Then the other side was like “Oh everything’s on sale. Should I buy?” And I’m like, “I don’t know. Tomorrow the stock could go up, it could go down, or it could go sideways. Which is a total rip-off of Preet Banerjee by the way. I should him credit on that one. And basically, here’s the thing guys. Even without massive pullback, the Canadian stock market is doing just fine, relative to 2008. It’s trading, if you look at price-to-earnings and stuff, it’s a little slightly right now below historical averages, depending what metric you’re using. But it’s basically at average. So it’s not a huge buying opportunity. It’s not like we’re seeing you know 2008 American stock market levels or anything like that. Just relax. It’ll be fine. Markets go up, markets go down. Hopefully over the long-term they continue to go up. But I was a little concerned and worried about sort of the panic on both edges of this.
Jackson: I’m just going to jump in and say that, as most of you probably know this, but if you don’t this is a good little refresher. This is my number one rant: the news media is not in the business of reporting news. That’s not what they do. They use the news to get you to read. So their headlines are going to be as sensational as possible. They are going to try to get you in so they can sell advertising. Don’t trust the media. The sky is always falling. And if the sky isn’t falling, something’s coming up from underneath you. They’re going to get you any way they possibly can. Don’t buy the hype. Just don’t.
As mortgage brokers go, I think it was in the National Post, a girl was talking about secondary lenders and she coined this phrase called “shadow lenders.” [laughs] All of a sudden, all of these media sources are picking it up and it’s like “Don’t talk to a shadow lender.” It’s like are you going to get a mortgage from the guy in the back alley with a knife?
The thing is, they don’t care. They’re just in the business of selling more papers.
Kyle: That’s fair enough.
Jackson: That’s what they want. The media is the media. Don’t buy the hype. It’s all garbage. And finance, as soon as you start talking about somebody’s money, oh man. That’s like a red hot button.
Kyle: That’s your button. Hit the “fear” button.
Sandi: Well look, this is the thing, Jason Zweig, from the Wall Street Journal talks about this a lot. Look, he writes the same five articles, and he just tries to write them differently. Real financial news is how are you personally on track with your plans, how close are you to your goals? And how sensitive are your goals to one or two or three-month, or two-year price fluctuations in the market? They shouldn’t be that sensitive, and if they are that sensitive, you should already be aware of what the implications are. Do you know what I mean?
If news media was really working in the best interest of investors and really worried about making sure you have the pertinent information that you need, they would say the five same things over and over again. “You need a plan, you need to review your plan, don’t panic.” Like old news is always the same. You know what I mean: this is no different from last time, any last time. Last time could have been two years ago, or five years ago. It’s always the same.
Kyle: Yeah, and it’s crazy like how that media noise that you guys are referring to affects people, because when I teach personal finance in school, and the kids go home. Because you know, we talk about you know registered versus non-registered and what a portfolio looks like, and what’s the difference between a stock and bond, etcetera. I show them you know the historical charts and what they can reasonably expect. What’s the worst 30-year sort of block that every asset class is looked at. So they go home and they tell their parents, “Oh yeah the stock market, it’s a pretty good deal.” And the parents are like, “No, everyone lost their retirement in 2008. The market, it’s brutal, it’s terrible.” And so then they come back and have to explain well no, the stock market in both Canada and the USA has hit new highs, you know, a hundred times over. Like a hundred days of consecutive new highs and stuff in the USA. It’s been sort of a really great upswing, actually, in most markets since the 2008-09 disaster. And you’d never know that by looking at papers, because exactly what Jackson says, if you read a headline that says, “Growth really smooth and pretty good for the last four years”, who’s reading that?
Sandi: That’s right.
Kyle: Are we on a cliff? Are your retirement savings about to disappear through a shadow lender? [laughs].
Jackson: My favourite headlines, so far is “Canadians and Their Debt Level”, “Household Debt At All-Time High.” It’s been at an all-time high every time since 1964, when they started reporting debt, because there’s more Canadians. Because there’s more of us to have debt, debt increases. There’s mover overall debt, but man that’s a real good headline to dig into—”Canadians Debt at an All-Time High.” The numbers don’t mean anything. It’s just meant to freak people out.
Sandi: Well, yes. I don’t like those headlines either, although I would probably quibble a little bit about where they come from. But what I want to go back to is people reacting viscerally, kind of what you were talking about, Kyle. You know parents at home saying, “Oh, well you know, my friends lost everything in 2008,” or whatever.
People, in general, don’t know what their own financial, their own rate of return has been. Very few people track their rate of return. And even if their institution tracks it for them, which they don’t actually have to until July 2016 when CRM2 rolls out. But even if their financial institution is tracking it for them, most people have a couple of things over here at one bank and a couple things over here with their insurance company, or with their DC plan at work.
So to know what kind of your overall rate of return has been and how you personally had fared through markets and through your regular savings, and that sort of thing. People, most of the time, base their opinions on what the stock market is like and has done and the risk level on anecdotal experience. Or again, these wildly overstated headlines that are either telling you everybody’s in and your stupid to be on the sidelines or you’re in and you’re really stupid because here comes, like Jackson was saying, something from underneath. So I think people tend to react with emotion and anecdote, rather than looking at her own particular situation. I mean, in a situation like this, this is the perfect time—to me—for people to go look at their portfolio and construct their rate of return for the past little while, and see if it really is a problem.
Kyle: And I want to reiterate here, Sandi, it’s not intelligence thing, exactly how you were talking about to Jackson’s. There are super-smart people.
Look, there’s a reason 24/7. There’s several 24/7 business news channels, like Jackson was talking about. Newspapers trying to grab headlines. They’re coming out once a day or on their website. These guys have got to fill like 18 hours of live TV some days, and it’s unbelievable. I mean, the smart people with millions of dollars to invest who watch guys like—I’m sorry Jim Cramer I’m going to just you know join Jon Stewart on my high horse here. But like Jim Cramer’s got this crazy successful show and he’s like throwing stuff—animals—at the screen and like honking horns.
He’s got these graphics that his kindergarten child made for him. And people invest on that. Like they call in. They’re like “Boo yah!” They do all this crazy stuff. I watch it and I’m just amazed. I’m like, “I can’t believe that people make stock market decisions based on this travelling circus of entertainment.” It’s just a really weird way to approach sort of managing your money.
Sandi: But listen, don’t we all kind of feel foolish when we do nothing? Isn’t it just something inside of us? Even the more experienced we get, the more knowledge we get about how our own finances really work, there’s still that feeling of “Shouldn’t I be doing something? Like is it foolish for me to not be doing anything?” It felt braggy 15 miknutes ago when I said “well, I haven’t even opened up my investments”, but I haven’t because I’ve learned that doing that is a real sure road to the other part of me saying, “Well Sandi, you should be doing something.” So I’m putting blocks in place because I know my worst side. I have consciously and ahead of time –before a situation like this happens–I have to make some decisions in advance when I’m not under stress and say, “In advance, if I hear news like that, I’m not actually going to go look at my own statements. I’m not going to log on and see what’s happening” or “I’m not going to read that news” or whatever.
And then with the benefit of hindsight, I can then go back and take a look at what’s happening without that immediate stress and that immediate pressure to say, “Oh I gotta do something right now.” I think we all feel that way. I don’t think that’s a foolish thing, but I do think it’s something we need to manage.
Kyle: And just to sort of further clarify on that point, I know Sandi and Robb, in the past have both been big fans of the couch potato, passive investing, index, whatever you want to refer to it as; low fee, broad, diverse investing options. And I am as well. We got like a free ebook on the site—I’ll shamelessly self-promote there—that describes exactly what my portfolio looks like, if you want to check it out.
But guys, this stuff is not magic. Like people are emailing me saying, “Oh I thought you had this magic cure with this couch potato portfolio”, and it’s like “No, it is definitely not magic.” It’s the furthest thing from. You’re taking the average market returns—hopefully, if you do it right—and when the market goes down, you’re going to go down. Like make no mistake, if you’re in a couch potato, low index, or whatever you’re in, if you were in that in 2008 and 2009, it went down like 40% or whatever it was. Whatever the average of your portfolio was. It’s now went up considerably. But just understand that there’s no magic bullet here. Like unless you owned Berkshire Hathaway–which is Warren Buffett–in like 1960, your stocks go down once in a while and that’s okay. As long as you understand what it is that you’ve actually invested in and sort of how these long-term trends generally go.
Sandi: Yeah and that’s always a big concern from you when I see sort of armchair advice. Like there’s a huge community of people that are really great and willing to spend time giving people advice, you know, in Reddit forums and that sort of thing, but the thing that really is a red flag to me is people who start their advice with “just.” So, “Oh, just invest in low-cost ETFs in a couch potato portfolio.” And it’s not like you need to kind of give somebody a 10-chapter book about investing, necessarily. I mean, the right advice is sometimes still the right advice no matter how much the person knows why they’re following that advice. But when you give somebody “just invest in a coach potato portfolio” advice and you don’t say just what you said, reasonable expectations that it’s going to go down at some points, then you’re doing them a disservice.
Kyle: Yeah Jackson, I don’t know. What’s your experience? Did you hear us talk about this or are we already getting into too much lingo when we talk about this index and stuff?
Jackson: I think this is exactly what the Because Money podcast needs to be is just a relevant conversation for people who are trying to figure this out. But yeah, there’s obviously going to be some lingo. We’re talking about personal experience, right? Just as long as you understand that we’re not here to give you a magic bullet. There’s no magic pill. We’re going to have a conversation and you need to figure out what’s right for you.
Personally, and I know that I shared this on Season 1, I lost 98% of my stock portfolio in two weeks in 2008; because I was diversified in junior speculative oil stocks. I bought three of them. That was diversified, for me. And you know, it was a rookie mistake. I took the advice of someone who said, “Just invest in this. And it’s a 20-bagger, no problem.”
Kyle: “20-bagger”, I love that.
Jackson: So I basically rushed in, I cashed out some money that I had. I did well in the property market. I bought and sold some houses. I took half my money and invested it in the stock market, half my money and built a mortgage company. Was successful with the mortgage company but lost the stock market. “Just put you money in here”, and I did and lost 98%. They actually wrote an article in the Globe & Mail about me, on how you couldn’t have picked worse stocks. They took the stock class that I had and showed what they earned, and it was zero, zero, zero. It was terrible, but I learned a lot. I’ve got to look back and say it was horrendous experience. Would I do it again? No, but I mean, the truth is that I’ve learned a lot from it.
So for me, the open conversation of dialogue, the things that I’ve learned. The TD e-series or whatever you guys want to talk about couch potato strategy, and I’m like “Oh, that’s so boring”, but it’s probably what I need to do. But it’s so boring. It’s this internal dialogue that I struggle with, because I look at the stock market and I go, “Yeah, there’s a stock, there’s a company I like.”
Kyle: Casino, yeah.
Jackson: I also invested a bunch of money in wind turbine company, where the owner took all of our money, took a tour of the world and bankrupted the company.
Kyle: [laughs] That’s amazing.
Jackson: So if you do private equity stuff, well if you’re me, never invest in the stock market, never invest in private equity. I think the only thing that I’ve never done is a couch potato strategy, and that’s probably what I should do. But right now I’m spending my money investing in my business. I know I’m not diversified, but this whole thing we should continue the conversation over the next 15 episodes and just try to talk through these things, and that’s kind of why I’m pumped to be here for the Because Money podcast. I’m done talking.
Kyle: [laughs] Yeah. That’s a perfect illustration, Jackson. I think you might be missing sort of a real money-making opportunity there. See there’s lots of shows on TV where they pick winners. It would be great if Jackson Middleton had a show that was like, “Here’s what I’m investing in” and then everyone would just go and do the opposite and you’d make quite a good portfolio. That’s a Middleton stock!
Jackson: Yeah. Not good! No way! I don’t want to be known for that, but man-oh-man.
Kyle: Actually, that raises an interesting point though, Jackson. Because every day—and I’m not going to point one of them out—but all of the major publications across this country I see headlines, “My Top 5 Stock Picks”, “Top 3 Stock Picks for the dividend market”, “Now we need stability stocks”, “Six Stability Stocks for Your Portfolio.” And it’s new stuff every day.
And you know how often they check back and actually look? Almost never. It almost never happens where they actually look back and see how their predictions have done, 5, 10, 15 years later. It doesn’t matter six months later, that’s irrelevant. Twenty years later, that’s relevant to most long-term investors, which is what you should be looking at if you’re in the stock market, and they never do it. So these people have like no track record to speak of. They had like maybe two years, or whatever the case is. They have a high profile for some reason and they’re giving their stock picks. And you’ve got to ask yourself, well okay what’s the incentive there? The incentive is to make the craziest stock pick imaginable so that you get on the front page of the paper, your name increases, and if you hit it out of the park, great. Now you’re Jim Cramer. And if you don’t, no one remembers anyway.
Jackson: That happens in the mortgage world all the time. We get these guys that say, “We’re in a housing bubble. Housing crash is coming.” These guys have been calling down fire from heaven for the last 40 years, and it never happens!
Kyle: But it will one time and then they’ll be right.
Jackson: And if it does, “Oh, they’ve predicted the future”, and give them a TV show. Absolutely.
Sandi: A lifetime supply of stuffed animals.
Kyle: There you go. [laughs] And useless clichés. So anyway guys, that’s about all I have to say. I’m pretty easy here. Did you guys want to highlight anything else that we’re going to have going on in the Because Money show coming up this season?
Jackson: Oh yes.
Sandi: Yes, this season we’re talking about food. There’s some food coming up that I am very excited about. And Jackson, if you ever have a chance to follow him on Twitter, on Instagram, he has some of the best food pictures I’ve ever seen. He’s got like artful slabs of wood with like sprouts and sauce all over the place. Apparently they eat like that all the time.
Jackson: My downfall right now, is I love shopping for dinnerware on Etsy. Oh, let me tell you. I love buying things that I can display my food on. Yeah, so follow me on Instagram or Twitter.
Sandi: But we are going to talk food. And I’m very excited about that, because I think that’s another one of those “just” kind of “just cook at home.” Which sure, it could be great, but it might not be super awesome.
Kyle: Not if I do it. [laughs]
Sandi: [laughs] I mean, I know for sure we’re doing that. We’ve got a lot of other stuff that I’m very excited about, but we might not be able to unwrap yet. It’ll be surprising when it comes.
Jackson: And our goal is here—I believe—that we’ve kind of talked through is, to be a little bit more organized with scheduled dates. We going to do some prerecording. Last year, in Season 1, we really tried to work in some live, and hitting Twitter live, and we found it really worked well for those who wanted to contribute. We basically found that to get the transcripts out afterwards, it wasn’t really good for a regular show for us. So we’re going to do some pre-recorded shows. We’re going to be able to schedule our guests in advance. Maybe do some website stuff and promote a lot more stuff. We’re trying to clean it up for you in viewer land. We’re excited about another season, but I think that’s it. We’re ready to sign off.
Thanks for joining us and we will see you here in two weeks when we’ve got another episode.